Stormcloude, I am fascinated by this conversation and my central question is how we determine what interfaces are and are not fandom. Like, Tumblr is fully indexed and you can't properly lock to a certain group of readers (at least not in the easy way we have here on DW--I know there are ways to password protect, but those seem to be cumbersome workarounds rather than basic site functionalities). AO3 bookmarks often get used as reader focused commentary. I'm not asking a rhetorical question here: what makes GR readers so different from an AO3 reader being critical beyond the author's immediate access; what makes GR readers so much different from Tumblr readers discussing an author's stories?
In your metaphor of going into someone's home and taking things, you are creating AO3 and Tumblr as personal protected spaces. I know I've made that argument for LJ before, when most of us did spider and index block and conversations on here were quite separate from the non fannish world so to speak. But can we still make that argument? Are the GR readers actually strangers or are they merely other fans employing another interface? And, for that matter, are we actually having a private party here when we frequently cross retumblr back and forth with TPTB?
I fully understand and agree that exposing non accessible information in public places is wrong. I actually even agree that hard to find connections published in searchable in easily accessible places is wrong (i.e., if someone lists their hometown in a random LJ post that doesn't mean it should be put on their GR page). I also agree that images are a different issue, especially when they are fully reproduced and not credited.
But the outrage that I hear in the various posts and see in your comment here suggests that there are distinct communities (fans and GR readers) and that fans exist in a contained space from which GR readers "take things." Leaving aside the entire who is taking what (and again, I'm hugely sympathetic to the argument that taking material from published copyrighted texts and transforming them is not the same as taking material from within your own community and doing the same) , can we really demand that readers not comment on stories, that they can't write reviews?
I know I get very frustrated when people read my (published nonfiction) work out of context. In fact, I've gotten quite annoyed at GR reviews before. But that can't and shouldn't keep that reader from reading my book from the wrong perspective so to speak. I firmly believe that fanfic should be read within its own context and that it can lose much if not most of its meaning when taking out of that context. But "that context" may be as specific as the inside jokes on Tumblr while it's being written. It may be the fannish mood at the moment after a given episode. Different readers, different fans have all kinds of contextual clues that are not always the same and may be quite different from the author's. And yes, lacking those contexts readers may misjudge the works severely. But who gets harmed by that? Someone misread your story and posts it on a platform for other readers. What is the actual harm?
As for the Amazon connection, definitely true. Not sure what that'd mean for anyone still posting on LJ. And who owns Tumblr? Being on DW and AO3 is a moral decision for me, true. But I think fandom has long used commercial platforms just like it has been used by them, and I wouldn't begrudge any community their use of platform (and i'm not sure Amazon truly benefits from fanfic reviews)
Sorry TLDR...I'm trying to sort my kneejerk reactions, because I'm actually very invested in the community created works and the context driven readings and yet I'm amazed why the vehemence of the reactions.
no subject
In your metaphor of going into someone's home and taking things, you are creating AO3 and Tumblr as personal protected spaces. I know I've made that argument for LJ before, when most of us did spider and index block and conversations on here were quite separate from the non fannish world so to speak. But can we still make that argument? Are the GR readers actually strangers or are they merely other fans employing another interface? And, for that matter, are we actually having a private party here when we frequently cross retumblr back and forth with TPTB?
I fully understand and agree that exposing non accessible information in public places is wrong. I actually even agree that hard to find connections published in searchable in easily accessible places is wrong (i.e., if someone lists their hometown in a random LJ post that doesn't mean it should be put on their GR page). I also agree that images are a different issue, especially when they are fully reproduced and not credited.
But the outrage that I hear in the various posts and see in your comment here suggests that there are distinct communities (fans and GR readers) and that fans exist in a contained space from which GR readers "take things." Leaving aside the entire who is taking what (and again, I'm hugely sympathetic to the argument that taking material from published copyrighted texts and transforming them is not the same as taking material from within your own community and doing the same) , can we really demand that readers not comment on stories, that they can't write reviews?
I know I get very frustrated when people read my (published nonfiction) work out of context. In fact, I've gotten quite annoyed at GR reviews before. But that can't and shouldn't keep that reader from reading my book from the wrong perspective so to speak. I firmly believe that fanfic should be read within its own context and that it can lose much if not most of its meaning when taking out of that context. But "that context" may be as specific as the inside jokes on Tumblr while it's being written. It may be the fannish mood at the moment after a given episode. Different readers, different fans have all kinds of contextual clues that are not always the same and may be quite different from the author's. And yes, lacking those contexts readers may misjudge the works severely. But who gets harmed by that? Someone misread your story and posts it on a platform for other readers. What is the actual harm?
As for the Amazon connection, definitely true. Not sure what that'd mean for anyone still posting on LJ. And who owns Tumblr? Being on DW and AO3 is a moral decision for me, true. But I think fandom has long used commercial platforms just like it has been used by them, and I wouldn't begrudge any community their use of platform (and i'm not sure Amazon truly benefits from fanfic reviews)
Sorry TLDR...I'm trying to sort my kneejerk reactions, because I'm actually very invested in the community created works and the context driven readings and yet I'm amazed why the vehemence of the reactions.